By: Judy H.

I said it on another posting but...

there are too many veteran teachers who sit in their classrooms and do NOTHING for the kids in front of them. With seniority, many know that there is nothing that will be done about them, so they don't even care. The best 3 teachers in my building were cut due to lack of seniority while 5 veteran teachers (who have no business teaching children) were sitting pretty in their classrooms being aloud to do nothing but create an atmosphere of negativity. This is happening in many neighborhood schools that aren't being turned around. It's a shame that this seniority rule is cutting out the talent of bright, young teachers who have a lot to give. I know that not all veteran teachers are this way; however, there are enough at my school to let me know that if this is the norm at other schools as well, something needs to be done about this!!!

By: Come Back In A Few, BYT

End Discrimination Against Bright Young Teachers Now!

If the Bright Young Teachers worked in any other occupation as Bright Young Things, including Bright Young Baristas at Starbucks, they would be the first to go when jobs are cut. Has the above Bright Young Thing above ever heard of "last hired, first fired?"

Perhaps the corporate world which is giving so much guidance to the schools today and thinks it is just so COOL to get rid of the old-timers so that Tiffany-I-Made-A-Portfolio-In-Teachers-College can bring her OMG talent to the system will agree to replace the COOs, CEOs and CFOs with a first year MBA who has a brand new briefcase. Michael Scott and Ron Huberman (36 is pushing the line in the world of Bright Young Things) might want to make the supreme sacrifice of stepping aside with their atmosphere of negativity (check the July 22 Board meeting - "We can't do anything. Our hands are tied.”) and let Adam and Drew and Jose run things, because after all they are Bright and Young and Have a Lot to Give.

But here's the problem. Who will the Bright Young Teachers ask for help when an irate parent is coming to see them? Who will they ask for advice about how to manage their unruly classes? Bright Young Teachers come in eager and positive and loaded with the latest fads from the universities, but they don't have the EXPERIENCE. And EVERY TIME, EVERY TIME they get into trouble they go to a veteran for help. They don't go to the principal because then they may not be considered such a Bright Young Thing. They don't share with their posse because they are considered the "best 3 teachers" in the building and they don't want to be seen as not so Bright.

By: You'll Be 30 One Day

Wow

Hey, try sitting in front of a class and doing nothing for the kids for 5 hours for even 1 day and see how soon the place goes up in flames. You're either not a teacher or you're dealing in little-white-lie hyperbole if you say veteran teachers do that. Tsk. Tsk. That's not ALLOWED. Calls your character into question. How is it that you are ALLOWED to roam the halls all day peering into veteran teachers' classrooms? You must be one of the Bright Young Teachers Who Have A Lot To Give and can teach telepathically.

By: George N. Schmidt

Anonymous boilerplate from 'young teachers' -- Who, What, When and Where?

Colleagues. Calm. For the past five years, I've been tracking these anonymous and pseudonynmous boilerplate claims from "young teachers." My favorite came the day the Gates Foundation revealed that Chicago International Northtown Campus (i.e., back then, Good Counsel Catholic Girls High School in the second year of its great -- and lucrative -- morphation into a CPS charter school) was a "model" for reforming urban education. One of the (few) guys there said, at a media event, that public school teachers would trample the kids to get to their cares at the end of the work day, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah.

So I asked him where he had worked in a public school at witnessed this. Well, hmm, he hadn't worked in any public school, but, like Rush Limbaugh, he "had heard" all about it.

A year or so later, a guy who claimed to have had been a "teacher" somewhere ran the same set of lines (teachers from the greedy public school trampling children to get out of school at the FINAL BELL etc., etc., etc.). I traced him down after he ran an Op Ed column in the Chicago Tribune's "Los Angeles Times" (sad, that, for California journalism). Again, the guy hadn't actually worked in a specific public school, at least not one he remembered, you know, gee whiz, but he "had heard" all about it. From whom and where he could not remember.

These boilerplate slanders and libels against public school teachers have been around since the first Ayn Rand club was formed by guys like Arne Duncan or his spiritual predecessors, fantacists (in more ways than one) Alan Greenspan (who, if you remember, did his best economic thinking while taking long bubble baths).

Always ask these guys and girls to be a little more specific, first about themselves, and then about the Who, What, When, and Where of their slanders. Once they get specific, there might even be a reasonable "Why" now and then. (E.g., teacher was up all night with sick child and then came to work and ran out of energy by the time she got to that 20-minute lunch period).

Anyway, until we know who "Judy H" (above) is in real time, let's just assume she looks kind of like a combination of Alan Greenspan and Arne Duncan and goes twice a week to her special program at "John Gault Solutions" up there 14 floors above the Board chambers in the 125 S. Clark St. building. These people had 50 years to rehearse their nonsense after memorizing and re-reading all the randy parts of "Atlas Shrugged", and a full quarter century to screw up the entire world and crash the world financial system.

Do you honestly believe they'll stop their lies just because the majority of people now know they're liars?

By: Judy H.

Assumptions just make you look stupid!

I am an experienced, veteran teacher myself. This school year will be my 14th year in the district. Yes, I was even hired prior to the 1996 date that allows teachers to live outside of the district. Imaging that! I have worked at 2 Northside schools, have 2 master’s degrees (both I earned WHILE teaching), work with Boundless Readers and CAWP giving PD, am a mentor teacher, and adjunct with one of the local universities (along with having 2 children myself). I just happen to be one of the least senior teachers on OUR teaching staff.

The 3 teachers I spoke about all are veteran teachers as well. All 3 are also mentor teachers, are used as demonstration classrooms, and 2 of the 3 have been videotaped for training videos used with training new teachers. They are all tenured, they just happen to be the bottom 3 our OUR seniority list so they’re getting cut.

These 5 teachers I speak of are sloths who do NOTHING with the children the parents entrust to them every day. They teach from their desks, give the student 10 or more dittos at a time and tell the students to quietly work on them (with no explicit instruction of course) while they sit at their desks either reading a book or doing on-line shopping. These 5 ridicule the students and treat the students like second-hand clothing. It is a shame to see eager students entering into one of these teacher’s classrooms, only to be beaten down and broken by the words of these “teachers”. Come on! We ALL know that this happens. Whether you are an educator or not, each person reading this strand can think about those 1 or 2 teachers (every building has them) who do NOTHING to support the learning of students.

The reason this pisses me off is obvious; however, what is even more infuriating is the fact that these same slumps get the same ratings as the teachers who work their a**es off doing the best for the students. Let’s not pretend that this doesn’t happen. We ALL know it does. What I can’t figure out is why you keep supporting these teachers? I believe that EVERY student deserves to have the BEST teachers teaching them, regardless of their experience or tenure. I am shocked and amazed that you, George, and the rest of the people posting about this want to bury your heads under the sand and pretend that all veteran teachers are fantastic.

I read the same Chicago newspaper article that reported that in CPS that 92% of the teachers in the system either get an excellent or superior rating. This CERTAINLY isn’t because 92% of the teachers are deserving of this rating either. It is because many veteran teachers (not all) feel that they don’t have to do anything once they are “safe”. Mediocre is the standard, and it seems, that everyone else supports this notion as well.

So, to those posting before me… what do you have to say now? Are you going to continue to accept that veterans are THE answer? If you do, you are completely naïve and it is a shame! Talent is everywhere. Tenure shouldn’t exist to protect horrible teachers when there are plenty of fantastic teachers who would do the best for our students!

PS…George, if you want to know the who, what, when, where, and why about this inexperienced teacher…ask. Challenge me on questions surrounding best-practice instruction, discipline, classroom environment, coaching, mentoring, and teaching critical thinking skills to students, go ahead. I am VERY confident in my practice and I actually continue to go back to school to improve my craft (unlike the 5 veteran teachers I speak about). So, before you all start making assumptions, you should really know the facts. It just makes you look stupid!

By: George N. Schmidt

Anonymous doesn't help...

Sorry, anonymous, but we both know that in Cyberspace you could be anything from a ten-year-old hacker to Alan Greenspan or Arne Duncan.

The strange habits of blogging don't change that. Anyone who wants to make specific critiques is welcome.

Anyone who wants to comment here, anonymously or not is also welcome.

But those who make specific charges against teachers while blogging anonymously go into my book alongside those I discuss above.

As we've said so many times before: Where would be be if the Declaration of Independence were signed "Name Withheld by Request." Stand by your words in your own name or take the heat that comes with hiding before a temporary fashion.

By: Judy H.

George, your runarounds are always the same as well

Funny. I see that you still haven't acknowledged that what I said above, whether I posted my first and last name or just my first name and last initial, as being the TRUTH!!! One of the things I have found by always reading these blogs is that George, you can never admit that there are actually BAD teachers in the classrooms. How long has it been since YOU have been in the classroom? If you think that all veteran teachers are wonderful and are doing right by the kids, you are down right dillusional! You have no problem slamming YOUR news media colleagues for what they don't do, how it this any different? In EVERY profession there are the great and there are the awful. It's really not that complicated of a concept.

So, until you can acknowledge that there are horrible teachers in this system (most likely even at Payton and Beubian..your kids' schools) than I am not going to go any further than putting my first name and last initial.

I am just tired of the types who are going to sweep in on the white horse and save the day because the teachers need protection. Yes, some teachers do; however, there are plenty of teachers who need to be put out on their a**es for not doing their jobs. The corporate world would never put up with workers like this, why would we ever think that this is fine for our children? The answer is, it's not!

By: Margaret Wilson

Retired teacher

I don't think anyone would not acknowledge that there are bad teachers but this is true whether they are first year teachers, ten year teachers or thirty year teachers. I think most people who survive more than ten years are good teachers or they would have quit long ago. There are exceptions such as those that are burnt out but usually they are bright enough to choose retirement rather than hurt the students.

You speak of veteran teachers as the enemy. Years ago, I was a resource SPED teacher and I won a grievance to limit how often I was put in to sub because I couldn't fulfill the IEPs I was doing it so often. That's another story, the principal approached me one day because a sub had brought a gun in his briefbag and showed it to the first grade students. Needless to say, I agreed to take his place for the rest of the day. So, Judy, if you are going to generalize just be aware that these problem teachers are the exception to the rule and that they exist in all time spaces.

By: LOL

George Annoys Superior Teacher Who Has Two Children Herself

Hope Judy H. will share the Best Practice Instruction Technique that allows her to skulk about the hall watching the 5 veterans, who won't be her friend, do online shopping and still have time to be boundless and mentor and PD and give birth.

Everyone needs to listen to her because she is obviously one of the 92% of Superior teachers, but not one of those Superior Sloths who are in the same category with her. How are we to distinguish these classes of Superior teachers? Perhaps Judy H. could make a sandwich board and post her two Masters Degrees-one on the front and one on the back-so that no one mistakes her for a Sloth.

Quit taking Judy H. to task, George. She has enough bad luck in her life. She's a 14-year veteran and the only people that she admires are the Three Bright Young Things who have been conspired against by the Sloths and now they’re going to go off to Hollywood and make demonstration films and leave her alone with the 5 Ridiculing Veterans.

Even though she uses those cute little asterisks, George, and even though she’s a 14-year veteran, George, which in her mind is not veteran enough to be lumped in with the Veteran Sloths but will probably get her fired as her corporate dream bosses continue to take over CPS, and even though her charming personality is probably misread by the Sloths, George, the veterans who are urging the Union to get more aggressive in protecting all teachers will include her without question.

So there, George.

By: xian (CORE)

Who's to blame?

I'm always confused when people talk about the huge numbers of horrible teachers who need to thrown out on their "a**es", and then demand that we let them fire anyone at any time for any reason.

I thought this is why we have an evaluation process--albeit flawed. This is ample opportunity for a principal to remove/suspend teachers. The status quo--where people only use that system to root out teachers for personal reasons--is the responsibility of the current administration, not some horrible problem with teacher tenure.

By: George N. Schmidt

Mean, nasty, brutish, and short...

I'm glad that these threads are picking up, and am grateful to "H" (like out of a Kafka novel) for providing us with such fun. Courage is in short supply nowadays, thanks to the conventions of the Blogosphere, which allows this time of anonymous stuff. Since it's OK with us here in "Comments" (not in articles or Letters), so be it. The conventions of Blogging (including anonymous attacks on real people) are allowed here. It's sort of like nudism. If nobody has a name, who really knows outside the colony?

Couple of things to add, though, to this myhologizing hoaxiousness.

To claim that the "corporate world" would never tolerate this slackerness (the "Sloths" as noted above) is really a hoot. Few people in the corporate world work as hard as America's teachers. Even to be a "slacker" in a Chicago elementary school requires an incredible amount of fortitude. There are easier ways to draw a big paycheck -- especially in "corporate America" until corporate America crashed and burned (and took many of us with it).

This is fun.

Corporate America.

Hmmmm...

Like my New Jersey homeboy Dennis Koslowski (Tyco) who junketed to that big part he gave on Sardinia, where the sculptures dispensed wine (at corporate expense) through the penises of the statues.

Or Conrad Black, whose pretentious larcenous career as a press lord (and British Lord to boot) looted and then destroyed the Chicago Sun-Times. Great role model.

Or, still in Chicago media, Sam Zell, who was going to entrepreneuurially reinvent (don't you love those words) the newspaper experience of Chicago Tribune (and Baltimore Sun, Los Angeles Times, etc.) consumers -- but who was really playing "Flip this House" with the biggest property he'd ever played God with.

Let's not stop there. Kenneth ("Kenny Boy" to the now deposed George W. Bush) Lay, of Enron. Everybody in "corporate America" needs three houses in Aspen. At the expense of the stockholders of Enron, most of Enron's employees (who were stuck with all that stock in their 401ks) and half the people in California (when Enron rigged the price of electricity for one of the largest economies on earth for half a summer, killing people in the process).

Last but not least (the list is longer, but the afternoon is brief, and I can only tolerate so much of this fun)

CHAINSAW AL DUNLAP...

and his Minor League Protege

CHAINSAW PAUL VALLAS...

Dunlap's career as a "corporate" avatar crashed and burned after he had only screwed up four corporations with his stupidity (and illegal tricks, such as stuffing the supply chain and forcing inventory down the throats of his hapless customers) and "brilliant" quarterly returns on "shareholder value."

But I still treasure those hagiographic stories (one of my favorites, from page one of the Chicago Tribune business section) about how "Chainsaw Al" was a model of how to TURNAROUND a flabby corporation and put it back into shape.

Sure.

Like so many others, Chainsaw Al was a big mouth, a bully, and a crook. His type abounds in "corporate America", and just because they bellow a lot doesn't mean that bellowing should be taken seriously by those of us with real jobs (like teaching) in the real world.

I won't even go into the latest Big Shot on this long long long list (it actually goes all the way back to Crosseus, but that's another story).

Just one last homeboy of mine (I'm from New Jersey).

Jimmy Cayne of Bear Stearns. Homophobe. Nut case. Bully.

And playing bridge while his company collapsed and all of his colleagues were destroyed financially by his combination of ego, greed, and deregulated "Deadwood" morality.

Please don't preach about "corporate" models or values. The whole USA is about to rebel against the hapless Barack Obama because he bought that stupid propaganda from Arne Duncan about "turnaround." We deserve better.

But all we can do is start with helping teachers and the rest of the people trying to survive in what's left of our public schools.

Oh, by the way, none of my children has been to Payton.

From what I've seen of Payton and the Payton Hype, I doubt I'd encourage it.

Too Gold Coast and too pretentious for my family's taste. And, possibly, too white blindspotted.

But that's another tale for another time.

Thanks for sharing, "H".

My reading list for your for the summer? Kafka's "The Castle". Followed by one of those courtesan fantasies about how all cute young lassies get Fabio in the end and live happily ever after and never get flabby or wrinkled.

By: Judy H.

more tangents and run-arounds

I KNEW the corporate part would send you off to the races. It seems that I'm not the only one who can provide some fun for the readers of this strand. You certainly made me LOL!

It really is rather preditible of you; however, we still aren't talking about the fact that there are some bad teachers in schools. Instead, you took the corporate line, attached yourself to it, and swam away to oblivion and beyond completely avoiding what was being talked about. Run around 101. Go on a tangent, talk it into the ground, and then fail to stay on topic.

Again, rather amusing but doesn't help in the larger scheme of things. If you believe in all of the schools and teachers as much as you write about, I am curious as to why you chose selective enrollment and gifted programs for your own kids? Why not the neighborhood schools or the local high school? Weren't ALL of the teachers fantastic enough for you? If that is the case, why not stay at your local neighborhood school? Seems to me that with this mentality, every school should be just as good as the next school with a staff FULL of great teachers. Hmmmmmm. Interesting, very interesting!

It seems that this double standard is not OK when we are talking about your own kids, George. That's like saying do as I say, not as I do. It really diminishes your credibility! Also, I didn't see a mention of how long it's been since YOU have been in the classroom...

By: xian from CORE

What's your motivation?

I don't mean to be rude Judy, but we have addressed teacher quality in this thread.

And if you must address George's teaching qualifications, doesn't it seem particularly ironic that you bemoan the lack of outstanding teachers in the neighborhood schools to a group of people who have dedicated their lives to great teaching in the neighborhood schools?

If the city wants great teachers for all children, the solution is simple--provide more resources to actual educators to support and train teachers and stop firing, cutting and blacklisting great teachers willing to teach in the harshest environments.

By: Linda Stoller

I have to agree with Judy H.

I hate to admit it, but I have to agree with Judy H. I have worked in this system for 25+ years and have worked in 5 different buildings in my career. At all 5 buildings there was always a minimum of 2 teachers (and that is the minimum) who should not be teaching. I can recall being straight across from one of these teachers (we called him the nutty professor) who screamed at the students all day long. He always had the worst scores in the building and the kids were completely out of control. He did not teach reading at all (he claimed it wasn't his strong suit) and spent the majority of his day sitting in the hall (with the kids against the hall walls) waiting for his students to behave. On countless occasions, I would have to call the office because of the distractions to my class. It was a disgrace! He is just one of the many examples of teachers not doing their jobs at the students' expense.

There are also many more teachers who are truly dedicated to their jobs and go well beyond what their job description calls for. The problem is, as Judy states, that when being evaluated and these horrible teachers get the same ratings as the teachers who are REALLY doing a superior job, it is a slap in the face to us. That's all.

By: Wonder How The "Bad Teachers" Characterize You?

Sanctimonious Teachers in Glass Houses

Matthew 7: 1-3

Judging Others

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

By: xian from CORE

How did you help?

I can understand the frustration. I just am skeptical that anyone wants to fail as catastrophically as a teacher as you describe. No matter your talent in the discipline, there are always situations in which any of us would be greatly challenged to pull a good result out of if left with no support whatsoever.

I guess in an environment where we assume that there will be nothing positive coming from higher up, we tend to support each other rather than complain about each others' weaknesses.

That being said, even in the situations you describe, that sounds like a problem with the application of the evaluation process, not some excuse to make things worse for all teachers as the current reforms are doing.